name |
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| Grifter |
BJCanada – (1) You are 100% correct. If you are playing against nothing but CSM’s, do NOT learn to count. Put your efforts toward playing perfect basic strategy and a progression method you are comfortable with, or simply flat bet with perfect BS. (2) Regarding the counting posts, I am not advocating counting for anyone on this forum. I am simply answering questions about it because I did it for so many years. Quite frankly, I rarely count anymore. I keep my skills up, but normally I just play for the fun of it (and to make a few bucks) and the challenge of trying to “Beat the House.” |
2003-07-12 05:59:26 |
| Grifter |
Desert Dog - Addition to your ASM post below. ASM's can also be set to accept 4 to 6 decks, BUT only deliver 1 or 2 decks to the dealer. This is becoming more common in Nevada and gives the impression you are playing say a double deck game; but is actually a six deck game with less than 30% penetration. |
2003-07-12 05:27:19 |
| Grifter |
Specs - First...Forget the post below that says counting requires a large bankroll. That is a MYTH that has been spread by non-counters for at least the last thirty years I've been playing. It is simply not true! Second.. although counting does not require a large BR, I would not recommend it with $60 and a $5 unit. Even with a $3 unit, you are 'marginal' for even one session. |
2003-07-12 05:16:09 |
| renata hanakova |
brno merhautova 63 61300 |
2003-07-12 02:39:22 |
| renata hanakova |
leonka |
2003-07-12 02:38:25 |
| Desert Dog |
bjcanada -- I told you before, do not try counting against a CSM! The rationale behind counting is what's gone before affects what will happen after. With a regular shoe, if a streak of predominantly low cards gets played, then they're no longer in the shoe, so it will develop a positive count. But with a CSM, cards that are just played get immediately returned to the shuffler. An Automated Shuffle Machine (ASM) on the other hand, is very different from a CSM. With an ASM cards are still played down from a shoe; only the actual shuffling is no longer manual. Therefore counting against an ASM/shoe still makes sense. It's not the dealing by hand that matters, it's the big difference between a continuous shuffler and a shoe. As for progression systems, I've noticed they tend to magnify winnings if your win/loss ratio is neutral or favorable; they minimize losses or sometimes even give you a moderate win in dollars if your win/loss ratio is mildly unfavorable, but can bury you fast and deep, worse than flat betting, if your win/loss ratio is clearly unfavorable. The upsides are greater than the downsides, but there is clearly this downside. One of the biggest factors in favor of progressions is they make playing more exciting. |
2003-07-11 23:30:48 |
| bjcanada |
howdy all,,,seems to be lots of COUNTING questions>>>so my question once again is ,,,
you guys tell me you cant count against the csm and they all seem to be going to these bloody boxes>>>what the hell is the point then...??//
if you never get to a casino with hand dealt games then counting is completly useless
to learn ..is that a fair statement????what ya say Grifter??stick to bs and hope for the best..???or learn a good progression system??
i ve noticed the 1,2,3, let it ride,,,comments???
thanx fellows!!!
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2003-07-11 21:42:16 |
| Midnite |
Specs- Is "under $60 limit" your total trip bankroll or top bet ? Counting requires a large bankroll. Is it worth it ? Probably not in your case. When you first learn to count, you will find it very stressful and mentaly taxing, at the tables. The more you do it, the easier it becomes. But for a while, it can take all the "fun" out of the game. Counting is sort of like driving a 4-Speed. When you firt start you have to think, push in the clutch-grab the shift-put it in the next gear-slowly let out the clutch. After you drive one for a time, you just do it and don't even think about it. Same with counting. After a while you will be able to do it and not even think about it. How long ? Everyone has a different learning levels, so I couldn't say how long it would take. |
2003-07-11 20:01:44 |
| Specs |
wow very active board. thanks for the tips guys. would it be worth my time to learn how to count cards if im a small time gambler? small time as in goin about 2 times a month, with an under 60 buck limit mainly on the 5minimum tables? i know the basic principles behind it but i just need alot of practice to be able to count at a faster pace. |
2003-07-11 19:10:02 |
| Doc |
No problem Mr Ed that was a pretty messed up post anyway. RonT I agree with you, since the Ace/10 front count needs an accurate 2 deck estimate on a six deck shoe I'm not as ready for it as a basic Kiss count. I've been drilling on KO and I think it will be easy to transit to KISS, but I'm still not ready for the casino though, I'll stand behind a couple of tables tonight and backcount KISS and see how it goes. Another thing I liked about BB II was he clearly listed the 'Money Saver' splits vs the 'Money Maker' splits and gives you alot of the odds on different hands and shows how 'close' some double vs hit decisions are. And since one of the best things about blackjack is the odds change as the deck is dealt down his admonitions to start 'playing the board' is a good first step to progress beyond just basic strategy. I've always striven to learn and play basic strategy like a robot, now Im learning that you also need some 'card playing' skills and understanding of why you play cards a certain way to keep going in this game. |
2003-07-11 18:36:34 |
| RonT |
Doc, I'm also a non-card counter who read the 1st ten chapters of Fred Renzey's Blackjack Bluebook II looking for a simple solution to improve my game.
He gave us 3 solutions: babies vs 10's; Ace/10 Front Count; and his unbalanced "Kiss Card Count" system. Since all 3 are different, we have to pick the way we want to go. I wish he had charts and modifications included for the first two systems using an 8-deck shoe as that's whats available here unless your into the higher stakes.
If I did go into card counting, I'd compare the Kiss system vs the KO vs the Red 7 count as they are all unbalanced and simplier to use than a balanced system. I liked his book and will definitely use his Rule of 45
. |
2003-07-11 15:09:16 |
| Grifter |
Typo..We will still take a "two" unit winner. |
2003-07-11 13:53:17 |
| Grifter |
sld007 - Good news is you are right...Bad news is that more and more stores are eliminating the DAS; but we'll still take a 4 unit winner. |
2003-07-11 13:52:12 |
| sld007 |
specs - Don't fret if you split 6s and get tens on each. You split sixes when dealer has 2-6, i.e. probably a bust hand, so you are basically going for the bust. The beauty about splitting is that sometimes you get 3s,4,or 5s on those 6s and you can double your now 9, 10 or 11 against that dealer stiff. Nothin's sweeter than turnin' a twelve or fourteen 1 unit loser into a 4 unit winner! |
2003-07-11 13:42:33 |
| Mr. Ed |
Doc, Whoops - I didn't read your second post. Please accept my apologies. |
2003-07-11 13:07:37 |
| Mr. Ed |
Doc/Spec - just a small correction: Actually, 88v4-7 and 77v6 are excellent hands, each giving the player an EV of over 0.20. You are correct that 88v8-A are quite defensive. Terrible hands, really, but better than having 16v8-A! |
2003-07-11 13:01:32 |
| Grifter |
McFlaherty - You are welcome, but no thanks necessary. "Fire at will" with questions. |
2003-07-11 11:36:23 |
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