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| BuGhOu§eMASTER |
Midnite: Not a great DD maybe, but BS says to do it so you should ALWAYS double 11 vs 10 REGARDLESS!! ... UNLESS of course you're counting cards which the maj. of players dont anyway. It's 11 vs. Ace which should be the questionable move, NOT 11 vs. 10 because then you can make alternative arguments like "oh, 5/5 shouldn't be doubled against a *9* or 8 since they're so close to 10, etc." See what im saying? So Desert Dog, I'd continue to double 11 vs. 10 since you're going into it with a 62% EDGE in the first place.
Actually, Grifter renzey DID say it was "advanced" basic strategy and even comprised a chart with the BS and Advanced BS moves which is where I got it from. |
2003-08-02 16:56:18 |
| hilter |
screw you b.h.m. |
2003-08-02 15:35:14 |
| bigman |
yes you are right |
2003-08-02 15:33:50 |
| Midnite |
11 vs 10 is Not a great DD. Out of the 21 hard DD's, there is only one hand worse, as to how many times you win/lose. Desert Dog, check your Gold/Silver/Bronze list I sent you, and you will find both the 11 vs 10 and the 6-6 vs 4, fall in the Bronze Medal category. |
2003-08-02 12:55:52 |
| The Bronkx Kid |
Easy Zebra, don't want to go and pull a safari on your ass, Yankees rule. |
2003-08-02 12:54:02 |
| zebra |
nice work in the desert. i have a similar story from last week -- also burned by splitting sixes (against a five). i was trying out and was deep into the new york progression (even though i hate the yankees) -- and had a $200 bet in front of me and drew a pair of sixes against the dealer 5. drew a three, doubled, got a face-down four as i found out later. drew a nine on the second six and stood. dealer turned his five into a five card nineteen. six hundred went down -- two thirds of what i was up at the time. had a good run later to recover the loss but what a punch in the stomach. i will definitely be learning something about composition-sensitive hands as i may have been betting right into a juggernaut and not even known it (and doesn't that make me a sucker?) as i was not tracking the cards at all. everybody at the table (i was in the second position) who took a card that hand took a little one and the dealer didn't bust with two opportunities so my suspicion is that a count would have given me a strond signal and warned me off of this big loss. renzey -- you sold another book. |
2003-08-02 12:00:02 |
| Mike |
DD: I was going by gut instinct....hmmm a gambler, huh? Nice job! |
2003-08-02 10:50:41 |
| Grifter |
To All – I would suggest that the term “advanced basic strategy” be eliminated, because there is no such thing in the real world of blackjack. That term was apparently “made up” by the person who listed Fred Renzey’s Mag7 in his post. Basic strategy is basic strategy is basic strategy. Fred does not say these hands are ‘advanced bs’, he very carefully states these hands are “going beyond basic strategy” and are “composition – sensitive” hands. This is nothing new, and Fred doesn’t claim it is. Midnite and I call it “reading a table”, and have done it for years. Where Fred really deserves the credit and kudos is that he is the first one (to my knowledge) to make a list of these hands and thoroughly explain them and their benefit to basic strategy players. |
2003-08-02 10:40:38 |
| Desert Dog |
Bug -- You asked about my buy -in. I bought in for 40 "Units" and left with 65. If my split 6's had gone favorably, I would have left with 81 units. Which wouuld have been about what I paid for four new Michelins yesterday. |
2003-08-02 09:34:21 |
| Desert Dog |
Agreed, Bug. The board should be reminded that my not doubling 11 vs 10 because of lots of highs already out there is NOT proper advanced basic strategy, I was going by gut instinct there. As for the split 6's vs the 4: One of the Mag7 hands included in your post was to hit 12 vs 4 rather than stand if lots of high cards out. So if the 12 is a pair of 6's, does AdvBS say the split 6's rule still overrides that? Also, what was your source for that Advanced BS posting the other day? |
2003-08-02 09:20:16 |
| BuGhOu§eMASTER |
" Also read the table to back away from doubling 11 vs 10 a couple of times and it worked out." .... No, that is incorrect!! It's 11vs.ACE that you change your BS up bc if there are many LOWBIES on the table you DOUBLE instead of just hit. But against a 10 dont change your strategy. You will more than you will win if you do what you did last night... you just confused what I had said. Against *ACE* on your 11 you must view the table for the high/low cards, there is no Mag7 hand for 11 vs. 10. |
2003-08-02 08:13:00 |
| BuGhOu§eMASTER |
BTW dude, you did EXACTLY what you were supposed to do with those 6's. On multideck, split ALL THE WAY til the dealer shows 6, he had a 4 so obviously that's the correct move, it's just that your luck was way over, therefore did not work. It's alright though. Keep playing SOLID bs and you will have even BETTER results. How much did you buyin for? |
2003-08-02 08:06:29 |
| BuGhOu§eMASTER |
BTW dude, you did EXACTLY what you were supposed to do with those 6's. On multideck, split ALL THE WAY til the dealer shows 6, he had a 4 so obviously that's the correct move, it's just that your luck was way over, therefore did not work. It's alright though. Keep playing SOLID bs and you will have even BETTER results. How much did you buyin for? |
2003-08-02 07:52:32 |
| BuGhOu§eMASTER |
Haha, Desert Dog, nice job!!! AND YOU CAN THANK ME FOR THE ONE ADDRESSING *ADVANCED* BASIC STRATEGY!!!!!!!!!! lol. nice job. how much did you end up winning? |
2003-08-02 07:51:16 |
| Desert Dog |
Had a great table last night. All the good players kept winning, and the few doing dumb stuff (splitting 2's vs 10, doubling vs anything) kept losing. There is justice after all. First base guy bought in for $500, played stacks of green, left with $950. I was at third. Guy next to me walks up, puts down only $20, and by the time I left he had built that up to $200 in chips. I had several 16 vs 10 situations where from reading the table I made the right call. Lots of lows out there, didn't hit, dealer turns over a low so she had to hit, dealer got a 10 and busted. Or lots of highs out there, did hit, sure enough got a 4 or 5. Also read the table to back away from doubling 11 vs 10 a couple of times and it worked out. So as we've been told here by our published experts and resident sages, don't just learn Basic Strategy, learn to read the table and switch to Advanced Basic Strategy when indicated. My favorite spot is third base because it gives you the largest number of cards to read. AdvBS may only give you a slight additional edge, but that edge may be what gets you to your win limit. I had shot way past my win limit and was about to pack it in. Then was dealt 6-6 vs dealer 4. Not the greatest split, but I figured I had to do it. Next card is another 6. So now I've got 666 in front of me. This looks evil. Three way split now. Hit first, get 5, double it, get 5 again, stuck at 16. Hit second, get 8, stand at 14. Hit third, get 9, stand at 15. Four times my original bet out there. Dealer turns over 6, uh-oh, then gets a 7, beats me on all four bets with 17. (Question: would anyone out there have just stood on those 6's, leaving it as a 12?) Still finished well over my win limit. This was at a casino that only uses Continuous Shuffle Machines. I would have liked the serial number of that one, in case they move them from table to table. PS used flat betting strategy mainly because it was a CSM. |
2003-08-02 07:30:45 |
| Desert Dog |
To crackers -- with those house rules, I'd say it's best to drive to Tunica. H17 is not the problem, because that's now common, but not being able to split on soft hands, or to double after splitting -- those rules really bite. What state is this Cherokee casino in? |
2003-08-02 06:58:33 |
| crackers |
Thanks, Renzey, for the explanation. Since I am NOT a counter, your 2 deck count is less intimidating. Only casino available is Cherokee Indian. Tunica- a full day drive for me- is their closest competition. Cherokee has "live" dealors who simply push a button. Dealor hits soft 17, player doubles ONLY on 10/11. NO DD after split. Under these Lousy house rules, would you say is best to flat bet? |
2003-08-02 04:03:17 |
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