Question About 8 Decks Play
  • I got question here, the casino I play they offer either CSM table or 8 Decks table with 2.5 Decks cut off. A table like this car counting still work? Anybody give me a suggestion please. :?:
  • Counting will not work with a CSM. 2.5/8 is poor penetration - counting will work, but unless you're playing black chip, your EV will be less than working at McDonalds.
  • counting will work, but unless you're playing black chip, your EV will be less than working at McDonalds.


    Yeah I agree... 2.5 decks cut-off from an 8-deck shoe is terrible! That's even worse than they do at the Isle where I play... there it is 6-deck but they have ~75% penetration. Is this figure okay? Where exactly does the advantage come from with MORE penetration in the shoe such as 80-90% penetration?
  • The advantage comes from seeing more cards. That way, if the shoe is really positive, there's more cards coming out before the next shuffle and a greater chance of making some serious $$$ off the shoe.
  • The advantage comes from more variance in the true count seen near the end of the shoe with the same running count. If there is one card left and it's a 10 the count is 1/(1/52)=+52!!!! If the running count is +1 and there's 1/4 deck left, the count is +4. With a running count of +6, with 3 decks left, the count is +2, with two left, it's +3, with one left, it's +6.

    On the flip side, a running count of -1 with 1/4 deck left is -4!!!! So the count is positive as often as it is negative, but the absolute value of the count is much larger.
  • can u explain that mr ed? doesnt seem to work out in my head. if there was one card left, it could either be plus/minus one. or even.
  • Specs, A less technical way of looking at penetration is to
    look at the ratio of cards behind the cut card to cards remaining to
    be played. Assume an 8 deck game with 75% pen (two decks cut out).
    Futher, assume there is 1/2 deck to be played. What is the ratio?
    It's 4:1 (2decks vs 1/2) and this is quite normal. Now assume your
    running count is +3 divided by 2.5 decks remaining = +1 true.
    Our expectations are for more high cards to come out in the last
    hand or two, but do they? With a 4:1 ratio its very possible that
    we could get all small cards. The reason for this problem is contamination
    of the remaining shoe/cards because of this 4:1 ratio. The higher the
    percentage of penteration the less the ratio; the less contamination
    of our expectation and the more likely we will receive large cards.


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