Sage, Ive read your post (5) times and still can't understand what you are doing. I also use Walt's progression and have had great success with it. I am also experimenting with different ways to lock in profits mainly by using a negitive progression after (2) losses. Only doing it on the computer right now but I seem to be having a little luck with it

My variation on Walters progression is that I use a 2 x 3 level progression, 1 x 3 level winning progression and 1 x 3 level losing progression, only moving up a level to recover loss's in a losing run, then returning to the level 1 winning /losing progression, a large bank roll is required to cover the recovery phase when required, but it works for me :lol:

My Incremental progression wagering

Start wagering at 5 units, then proceed with either of the following wagering cycles:

Winning Cycle Wagering

Level: 1: 7- 9- 11. *1
Level :2: 14- 18- 22. *2
Level :3: 28- 36- 44. *3

Losing Cycle Wagering

Level: 1: 10- 20- 40. *4
Level :2: 20- 40- 60. *5
Level :3: 40- 80- 160. *6


*1 Increase wager by 2/5 of original stake / increasing by 2 units ( This would be 2 with a 5 unit stake, 4 with a 10 unit stake and 8 with a 20 unit stake ) when you reach your 4th win, stay at the 4th wager in the cycle, untill a loss occurs, you would then move on to the Level: 1 Losing Cycle.

*2 When wins occurs when using Level: 2 Losing Cycle start using Level: 2 Winning Cycle from the beginning, till a loss occurs, then move back to Level: 2 Losing Cycle, continue doing this till your bank roll reaches the limit it was before the losing run started, resume back to the Level:1 Winning Cycle.

*3 When wins occurs when using Level: 3 Losing Cycle start using Level: 3 Winning Cycle, till a loss occurs, then move back to Level: 3 Losing Cycle, continue doing this till your bank roll reaches the limit it was before the losing run started, resume back to the Level:1 Winning Cycle.

*4 When your bank roll reaches the limit it was at before the losing run started any time during Level 1's Losing Cycle Wagering resume to Winning Cycle Wager Level:1, When there is 4 loss's in a row, revert to the table minimum if playing on the net*, ( if playing at a land based casino, change table or wait for a new shoe ) when a win occurs move on to Level:2 Losing Cycle Wagering.

*5 When your bank roll reaches the limit it was at before the losing run started any time during Level 2's Losing Cycle Wagering resume to Winning Cycle Wager Level:1, if Level:2 Losing Cycle has been completed with out any wins, move on to Level 3 Losing Cycle Wagering. if 4 loss's in a row occurs during this cycle revert to the table minimum if playing on the net*, ( if playing at a land based casino, change table or wait for a new shoe ) when a win occurs, move on to Level 3 Losing Cycle Wagering.

*6 When your bank roll reaches the limit it was at before the losing run started any time during Level 3's Winning Wagering cycle resume to Winning Cycle Wager Level:1, if Level:3 has been completed with out any wins, start Level 3 over again till your bank roll reaches the limit it was before the losing run started, then resume to Winning Cycle Wager Level:1 if 4 loss's in a row occurs during this cycle revert to the table minimum if playing on the net*, ( if playing at a land based casino, change table or wait for a new shoe ) when a win occurs go back to the start of Leval 3 Losing Cycle Wagering.

*Its not good for Microgaming software, but works ok for the rest so far

The same can be applied to 2 unit stakes:
Start wagering at 2 units, then proceed with either of the following wagering cycles:

Winning Cycle Wagering:

Level: 1: 3- 4- 5. *1B
Level: 2: 6- 8- 10. *
Level: 3: 12- 16- 20. *

Losing Cycle Wagering:

Level: 1: 4- 8- 16 *
Level: 2: 8- 16- 32 *
Level: 3: 16- 32- 64 *

*1B Increase wager by 1/2 of original stake / increasing by 1 unit ( This would be 1 with a 2 unit stake, 2 with a 4 unit stake and 4 with a 8 unit stake ) when you reach your 4th win, stay at the 4th wager in the cycle, untill a loss occurs, you would then move on to the Level: 1 Losing Cycle.

* Rest of rules same as for 5 unit wagering above

jm: Actually, it WAS a sign from above... I was sitting at a blackjack table one night, losing my *ss, and happened to glace up as a bolt of lightning arked across the ceiling. THere was a placard hanging from the bolt that read, "Walter... Use a $10/15/20/25 Positive Progression!" I tried it, and it works quite well :) .
From a mathematical standpoint, I've compared the system to many other progressions, and it stands up well in terms of risk and volitility, and shows a greater profit or lessor loss when the same hands are played by the player and the dealer -- when the only variation is the betting system employed.
On the other hand, there's some interesting work being done with progressions that contain both positive and negative betting plans. I recently wrote an introduction to a new book that investigates a positive/negative progression, and the results are promising. I'll let you know when the book is published and how it can be purchased.

Sage said:

Using 10, 15, 20, 25, 25 the profits are as follows:
L -$10, WL -$5, WWL +$5, WWWL +$20, WWWWL +$45
Note it takes two WWL (+$5) to cover one L (-$10) Ratio of 2W to 1L.

Now I'm no rocket scientist but this doesn't seem all that great. Say you were to flat bet $10, the results would be thus:
L -$10, WL $0, WWL +$10, WWWL +$20, WWWWL +$30
Let us say, just for arguments sake, your first 10 hands actually came out this way, LWLWWLWWWL. Playing your progressive system you would be ahead $10, but with flat betting you would be ahead $20. Even if the next 5 hands were WWWWL, y=with your system you are now at $55 while with flat betting you are at $50. My tiny little mind would think that you would have to see quite a few 4 in a row winning hands to beat flat betting. I'm not talking in a session either, I'm talking in an hour. This of course does not take into account splits and double downs. By the way if I win 10 of the last 15 hands and only walk away with $50 or $55 dollars someone from the casino had better comp me with a weeks stay at the very least.

Sage said:

Have been using Walter's progression, 2,3,4,5 for a few months. It seems to work, I'm up a few $$.

The question is does it work better than flat betting. Have you recorded your win-lost pattern and compared it?

I'm sure there is much more to this system than what has been presented here, so I, in all likelihood, have no idea what I'm talking about. :D

jm: I initially developed the system through trial and error, using my 5,000 hand sample, then tested it using Hubby's "Blackjack Tracker" sample of over 50,000 manually-dealt hands. If time allowed, I'd try some new research employing combined positive and negative progression systems, since other "inquiring Minds" have sent me material that leads me to believe that they may be more profitable than mine...