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| Midnite |
Steve- Have you ever seen the dealer with a 9 up, turn over a 5 and hit it with a 9 and say 21, as soon as the card hit the table. You wonder how in the world he can add them up that fast ? He can\'t. He knows that any combination of 5-7-9 or 6-7-8 is 21, no need to add. Same for the 5-7-8 = 20 no need to add them up. It may help you to write down your pratice hands in a steno notebook. This will have a dual purpose. It will help you with the adding up of the cards and you can always go back to the hands and replay them against a different betting method. I would not record pushs. Just look for the combinations and keep with it, you will find it gets easier, the more you do it. Hope this helps.
You can then compare different betting methods, against The Same Hands. |
2003-05-21 23:40:38 |
| sld007 |
steve - I read your post and you are too good of a speller to fit in in Shreveport! But...good luck anyway. Grifter -- Obviously, your statements about deviations from BS are due to your belief (antiquated I might add) in the value of counting. Yes..on a 1 or even 2 deck shoe you MAY decide to deviate from BS...but...son...the rat pack is all but dead. Now we have to deal with6-8 decks,auto shufflers, poor penetration...All pf which points to the value of progressive betting and for you newbies out there...DON\'T EVEN THINK ABOUT DEVIATING FROM BASIC STRATEGY!! You guys and gals have got enough to think about already, what with the yokels who \"feel\" their way through a shoe all the way up to extra heat from the pit if you simply know to hit a soft 18 against a 9,10 & A. Leave deviation to the deviates...after all only rain man can REALLY count into a 6 deck shoe! |
2003-05-21 21:27:27 |
| steve |
Grifter, I think it was is is a f-f-failure to communcate\'. Thanks for your thoughts about the site. I\'m new but not young, and even though I have an MD, my biggest stumbling block right now is, believe it or not, adding the cards after 1 or 2 hits in a real game situation. I can still get flustered, but one thing you said is really true, discipline, if I got to go back to grade school and start doing addition tables I will, and when that is second nature(my BS is 95% there) I\'ll apply the discipline to counting. I grilled alot of my BS time on the Yahoo game site but now realize this was a big mistake, they count the cards for you and you get spoiled, thats why hitorstand is so good, you have to count em yourself and with a short time limit, I even got on the board this week in the bonus round. I know you think counting is simple, but I had friends in College that were musicians and artists and they couldnt understand why I couldnt play or draw, I\'m going to try hard but innate ability is a big head start, the only thing thats ever come natural to me is standardized tests, and they don\'t have too many multiple choice BJ games. Thanks SLD you pretty much made up my mind to skip Tunica this weekend and go visit my little bro in Shreveport, I dont have any Tattos but after 25 years in Arkansas I got a pretty convincing good ol boy act so I should fit in. |
2003-05-21 19:52:09 |
| Grifter |
SLD – No, I didn’t miss the boat. In fact I’m rowing along just fine with “both oars in the water”. To coin a phrase from “Cool Hand Luke” what we have here “is a serious lack of communication” , and for that I take the blame. I was a little too terse in my post. I sure as hell won’t call BS the “holy grail” as you did, but yep it is right up there (g). What I was trying to tell you was that having to “think” about BS is bulls**t, thus the reference to “it should be like breathing”. (1) You don’t have time to think about BS when you are dealt your two cards…..It MUST be an automatic reflex, and that only comes with experience, because…….(2) What you REALLY have to decide at this point is whether or not to deviate from BS. This is where the real decision making comes in, (and admittedly it mainly involves counting) but it doesn’t matter whether you change BS 5% of the time (as you referenced) or 55% of the time. The point is this is where your thought process should be at this time, NOT deciding what is the correct basic strategy play. It could come from a myriad of reasons too numerous to list here but to name a few……TC, RC, ratio of high/low cards for the present hand, or maybe something unusual like you got a ‘tell’ of the dealer’s hole card, etc, etc., etc. ……Hope this clears up your misunderstanding. |
2003-05-21 17:23:56 |
| Michigan Dave |
Grifter & SLD007- In the few months I have been coming to this site, I have learned Basic strategy, betting, money management and the REALLY GOOD players have very few but distinct differences! Keep it up! This rookie enjoys these differences of opinions and one day I will be wise enough to add a green chip or two to the discussion. |
2003-05-21 16:52:15 |
| sld007 |
First to Grifter--\"Basic Strategy as one-third of the total game……except that it is total bulls**t. Basic Strategy after you have reached a certain level is ZERO percent of your game. BS should be automatic……like breathing. \"???How can you EVER say that BS is EVER zero percent of your game. Yes I agree that it should be automatice like breathing...but that does not diminish its importance as the holy grail of the holy trinity of BJ (BS, Betting and Money Management). And how can you say that \"One-third of the game should be when to DEVIATE from BS\" \"ONE-THIRD...WHEN TO DEVIATE\" Come on, Grifter. How often do you REALLY deviate form BS...maybe less than 5% of the time??? Sorry Grifter, I have always enjoyed your posts, but I think you missed the boat on this one. And speaking of boats...to steve...I love the games on the boats! Great comps, friendly dealers, favorable rules...except nothing else to do...and its shreveport so if you are wearing socks and your tatoos are spelled correctly...you are goin\' formal! |
2003-05-21 15:06:40 |
| Grifter |
Third of Three Posts - To SLD……I appreciate your sage advice and admonishment to Midnite and I to only count Basic Strategy as one-third of the total game……except that it is total bulls**t. Basic Strategy after you have reached a certain level is ZERO percent of your game. BS should be automatic……like breathing. Using your numbers……One-third of the game should be when to DEVIATE from BS…….the other two-thirds is simply the “BIG D” (discipline). I could go into all the various aspects of that (and admittedly they do include money management as you posted) but I’m simply tired of typing……..Ya’ll have a good group here……Keep it going. |
2003-05-21 14:10:10 |
| Grifter |
Second of Three Posts - Interesting posts about the insurance issue: May I suggest the following? If you are not counting, simply do not take insurance….PERIOD. If you are counting, then take insurance when the count is TC +3 (for the games you folks are playing). Simple as that, no further discussion needed…….To SLD: I agree with Michigan Dave 100%. The last place in the world you would take insurance is at the top end of a positive progression. If you have made your wins the typical way (with pat hands) then in all probability your EV is very negative……The LAST place in the world where you want to take insurance. |
2003-05-21 14:07:48 |
| Grifter |
First of Three Posts – You Have A Good Group Here…..Finally got around to reading all the posts I missed while Midnite and I were playing. He and I talked a little about this site and he said there were a lot of younger ‘guys and gals’ who truly wanted to learn and he enjoyed helping if he could. Reading through everything I certainly agree with him. There is a good, sharp group of minds here. The key to keeping this group “healthy” is for everyone to be truly honest about what they know and don’t know (Lord knows I have more than enough years of posting on “BJ21” and dealing with “wannabe’s” to be sure of that fact)….This group seems to be totally honest except for one poster. Ya’ll have one person in this group who claims to a “seasoned veteran” (my words) and then turns around and admits he has been playing insurance wrong for 20 years. Something not quite ‘kosher’ with that….. think about it, making the same mistake for twenty years and supposedly being ‘learned’ about blackjack….no way. I would guess this person’s level of knowledge and experience is at, or below, the level of the rest of you who freely admit you are still learning……My credentials? I first played the ‘Nugget’ and the ‘Shoe’ in LV in 1965, and have been playing every since. You do the math. |
2003-05-21 14:06:08 |
| steve |
sld007, Ive got a brother in Shreveport and I may get to visit this weekend, what are the games like on the boats there. |
2003-05-21 12:01:30 |
| D |
apologize |
2003-05-21 09:54:05 |
| D |
No, Midnite don\'t apoligize. All us rookies just LOVE catching the \"great teacher\" in a mistake!!!!! |
2003-05-21 09:53:44 |
| Midnite |
Sorry, I don\'t know what I was thinking, obviously I wasn\'t. I will slow down and Think before I post, in the future. Sometimes my brain rattles around like a pea in a cops whistle. |
2003-05-21 05:58:13 |
| steve |
But, does the hit or stand algorythm accept this as a correct play? |
2003-05-21 05:42:50 |
| steve |
Thanks grifter thats what I thought, soft 18 with more than 2 cards against a dealer 3-6 up card is a stand |
2003-05-21 05:40:09 |
| Newbie |
Okay I think I got it. So if I have a 5 & 2 and draw an Ace, I should stand versus dealer 3 thru 6 because I can\'t double down. Thanks! |
2003-05-21 05:29:40 |
| Ron T |
Midnite-let me see if I\'m understanding you. 5 cards help, 8 cards hurt. 5 divided by 8 = .625 chance of losing and .375 chance of winning. But since they are paying double (1.000 -.625 =.375) that .375 times 2 = .750 and
.750 -.625 = .125 or 12.5% gain per wager regardless of what it is. |
2003-05-21 04:23:47 |
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